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	<title>Comments on: Why buses will &#8220;ruin Yonge Street forever&#8221;&#8212;or will they?</title>
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	<link>http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/</link>
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		<title>By: Wesley</title>
		<link>http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/comment-page-1/#comment-12621</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/#comment-12621</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, point-to-point travel in York Region is currently low and the vast majority of traffic is commuter traffic to and from Finch. Like I said, I don&#039;t disagree that a subway would be a great idea. But there are a couple of caveats even so. 

First and foremost, if York Region is to grow smart instead of grow out, it&#039;s going to have to improve current urban densities along its major streets. That means the Yonge corridor and Highway 7. Condos are already going up all over Highway 7, for example. With higher residential density will likely come higher commercial density&#8212;it&#039;s already happening in my neighbourhood. More businesses and residences in the area means the need for point-to-point travel rises&#8212;unless we want to stick all our supermarkets, banks, restaurants and other amenities at 7/Yonge and Finch as well.

Second, improving point-to-point traffic within York Region is an unofficial goal of Viva, at least if you judge by its advertising campaign that touts the two-hour transfer. &quot;Do your shopping and get back home on one ticket&quot; is a good way to boost ridership, sure, but it only works if there are shops to go to within York Region.

Could such a system work with a subway? Sure. And in fact, the problem is the same whether we have a subway or the current Viva express lines, which act as defacto subways with distant stops. My point is that local bus service will never stop along Yonge Street, so the idea that a subway will clear the roads of buses is misleading. It also means that as densities rise in York Region, the advantages of a dedicated right-of-way increase as local traffic increases.

Third, it&#039;s the Finch subway coalition that brought up the issue of local service in the first place; I&#039;m just responding to the claim that subways would be better for local service than buses. Can&#039;t really blame me for bringing it up even if it&#039;s a relatively minor issue right now (though try convincing the current businesses lining Yonge Street that it&#039;s a minor issue).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, point-to-point travel in York Region is currently low and the vast majority of traffic is commuter traffic to and from Finch. Like I said, I don&#8217;t disagree that a subway would be a great idea. But there are a couple of caveats even so. </p>
<p>First and foremost, if York Region is to grow smart instead of grow out, it&#8217;s going to have to improve current urban densities along its major streets. That means the Yonge corridor and Highway 7. Condos are already going up all over Highway 7, for example. With higher residential density will likely come higher commercial density&mdash;it&#8217;s already happening in my neighbourhood. More businesses and residences in the area means the need for point-to-point travel rises&mdash;unless we want to stick all our supermarkets, banks, restaurants and other amenities at 7/Yonge and Finch as well.</p>
<p>Second, improving point-to-point traffic within York Region is an unofficial goal of Viva, at least if you judge by its advertising campaign that touts the two-hour transfer. &#8220;Do your shopping and get back home on one ticket&#8221; is a good way to boost ridership, sure, but it only works if there are shops to go to within York Region.</p>
<p>Could such a system work with a subway? Sure. And in fact, the problem is the same whether we have a subway or the current Viva express lines, which act as defacto subways with distant stops. My point is that local bus service will never stop along Yonge Street, so the idea that a subway will clear the roads of buses is misleading. It also means that as densities rise in York Region, the advantages of a dedicated right-of-way increase as local traffic increases.</p>
<p>Third, it&#8217;s the Finch subway coalition that brought up the issue of local service in the first place; I&#8217;m just responding to the claim that subways would be better for local service than buses. Can&#8217;t really blame me for bringing it up even if it&#8217;s a relatively minor issue right now (though try convincing the current businesses lining Yonge Street that it&#8217;s a minor issue).</p>
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		<title>By: Disparishun</title>
		<link>http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/comment-page-1/#comment-12620</link>
		<dc:creator>Disparishun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 05:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/#comment-12620</guid>
		<description>You know, your entire bit about serving local residents better is based on the premise that what would serve local residents better is being able to go point to point within York Region along the Yonge corridor.

Be serious for a moment.  You&#039;ve got to know that the vast majority of bus ridership on that route is headed down to Finch subway (or, to a much lesser extent, Steeles).  The extension to 7 will intersect with GO and get people where they&#039;re going much faster and with much less bus traffic on Yonge.

Yes, we will still need local Yonge buses for intraregional trips.  But I&#039;ve got to think that that&#039;s a pretty small number compared to the number of commuter and general heading-south-of-Finch traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, your entire bit about serving local residents better is based on the premise that what would serve local residents better is being able to go point to point within York Region along the Yonge corridor.</p>
<p>Be serious for a moment.  You&#8217;ve got to know that the vast majority of bus ridership on that route is headed down to Finch subway (or, to a much lesser extent, Steeles).  The extension to 7 will intersect with GO and get people where they&#8217;re going much faster and with much less bus traffic on Yonge.</p>
<p>Yes, we will still need local Yonge buses for intraregional trips.  But I&#8217;ve got to think that that&#8217;s a pretty small number compared to the number of commuter and general heading-south-of-Finch traffic.</p>
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		<title>By: jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/comment-page-1/#comment-12457</link>
		<dc:creator>jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/#comment-12457</guid>
		<description>In fact, I think she deserves a repost to illustrate this point:

Yonge between Center and Jane to the west, and Colbourne and Thornhill Summit to the east for a left-turn lane northbound. Cuts into the buffer zone between the sidewalk and the street on both sides. (This is one of the more costly cuts because both sides of the street have old plazas with storefronts that come up right to the sidewalk.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, I think she deserves a repost to illustrate this point:</p>
<p>Yonge between Center and Jane to the west, and Colbourne and Thornhill Summit to the east for a left-turn lane northbound. Cuts into the buffer zone between the sidewalk and the street on both sides. (This is one of the more costly cuts because both sides of the street have old plazas with storefronts that come up right to the sidewalk.)</p>
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		<title>By: jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/comment-page-1/#comment-12456</link>
		<dc:creator>jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrominance.net/2007/09/why-buses-will-ruin-yonge-street-foreveror-will-they/#comment-12456</guid>
		<description>Y&#039;know, it would also take out that eyesore building (I think it sells nothing but cellphones) just south of City Optical where the Dunkin Donuts used to be! 

I love this post just as much as I loved the Thornhill Laughing Lady. Represent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Y&#8217;know, it would also take out that eyesore building (I think it sells nothing but cellphones) just south of City Optical where the Dunkin Donuts used to be! </p>
<p>I love this post just as much as I loved the Thornhill Laughing Lady. Represent!</p>
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